Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The Role of Grappling in Self-Defence
#1
[Image: picture_TheRoleofGrapplinginSelfDefence.jpg]

The Role of Grappling in Self-Defence
Two thousand years ago wise men sought Christ, wise men still do.

Techniques are situational, principles are universal.

Fast as the wind, quiet as the forest, aggressive as fire, and immovable as a mountain.

He who gets there first with the most...wins!

Minimal force may not be minimum force!

We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our training.


Reply
#2
A good article. We actually do some grappling and jiu-jitsu in my school but that is simply based on not being a fish out of water IF the fight ends up on the ground.
Martial Arts done well leads to a more virtuous life because everyone is fighting something.

"If your eye is single, your whole body will be full of light.  But if your eye is evil, even the light that is within you will be darkness.  If the light that is within you is darkness, how great is that darkness?"  (Jesus of Nazareth)
Reply
#3
While I'm not entirely a dedicated fan of everything offered by him, I will admit that this particular article holds a mountain of truths and it's holds true to what I've / we've been professing / teaching for a long time. So to be concise, "Hit first and Hit hard"......
Reply
#4
(09-02-2015, 03:15 AM)Conrad Wrote: A good article.  We actually do some grappling and jiu-jitsu in my school but that is simply based on not being a fish out of water IF the fight ends up on the ground.

I would argue that jiu-jitsu is grappling. In Okinawa the guys told us that in Goju you enter and control. From that controlling position you can strike using whatever weapon you choose. Going to the ground, what most people consider grappling, is never the best option in a a real situation. Regaining your feet quickly from the ground is the real art.
Reply
#5
K-man:

I agree that jiu jitsu is grappling. I should have said jiu-jitsu/grappling, not jiu jitsu and grappling. And for me it is a given that you do NOT want to go to the ground in a real-life situation. But, IF you end up there, you need to have some applications to fall back on.

Kong Soo Do knows my story, but in short, when I got my black belt, I had very little training in grappling defense/take-down defense. Also, my instructor retired the day I got my black belt test. So, I was a ronin. Smile

I kind of "wandered in the wilderness" for a few years because finding martial arts schools that focus on real-life application is not easy. The little bit of jiu-jitsu I picked up simply added a component to my skill set that I lacked. But even when teaching ground fighting I often say, "Land so you can stand." It is a pithy way of saying, "Regaining your feet quickly from the ground is the real art."
Martial Arts done well leads to a more virtuous life because everyone is fighting something.

"If your eye is single, your whole body will be full of light.  But if your eye is evil, even the light that is within you will be darkness.  If the light that is within you is darkness, how great is that darkness?"  (Jesus of Nazareth)
Reply
#6
I'm a Ronin myself but for a different reason. I blindly accepted what I was told for many years until I was introduced to Okinawan karate. When I saw what they were training I could not continue teaching the stuff I had been taught so I left everyone and took my own path. Now everything is real life. Anything that is not real life is discarded and the text books are the traditional kata. Isn't it ironic? Most people think kata is anachronistic.
Reply
#7
My original training in the 1980s was very hard contact but no grappling or takedown defense and point-based sparring.  The lineage of may second set of formal training had its roots in the original, militaristic, real-life emphases of taekwondo in the Korean War.  But, my personal instructor had terrible knees.  He was a gifted teacher, but his ability to demonstrate was very limited.

In my Ronin years, I eventually connected with a 8th-Dan Shorin-ryu named Clarence Murray.  Here is a link: Clarence Murray

He is not happy about the modern martial arts scene.
Martial Arts done well leads to a more virtuous life because everyone is fighting something.

"If your eye is single, your whole body will be full of light.  But if your eye is evil, even the light that is within you will be darkness.  If the light that is within you is darkness, how great is that darkness?"  (Jesus of Nazareth)
Reply
#8
Interesting. Having trained under a student of Hohan Soken, Clarence Murray most likely would have been trained in kyusho, as I have a copy of Soken's notes. They were the basis of a lot of Earle Montaigue's work. Did he pass any of that on to you?
Reply
#9
I'll ask Master Murray for specifics. Clarence Murray has not passed on any of Hohan Soken's notes. I know that Murray traveled to Okinawa sometime around 1975 to train. That would have been nearer to the end of Soken's life. Clarence Murray may have told me before but I do not remember if he trained some directly with Soken or has any notes from him. Once I find out, I will update you here.

Most of what Murray has passed on to me is bunkai, using the Chang Hon patterns I already know. He does not know those exact patterns, but he knows many of the China/Okinawan origins of the same basic moves.

I have also gotten to train at his dojo with him and some of his more advanced students. I go out there about once a month and he comes to my little school once or twice a month.

I have also met Ali Shabbaz (7th Dan, aikijitsu) a couple of times and done some training with him. Murray mentions Shabbaz in the link I referenced above.

To be honest, both of these guys are way out my league. I have been blessed to get to work with Murray consistently over the past few years.
Martial Arts done well leads to a more virtuous life because everyone is fighting something.

"If your eye is single, your whole body will be full of light.  But if your eye is evil, even the light that is within you will be darkness.  If the light that is within you is darkness, how great is that darkness?"  (Jesus of Nazareth)
Reply
#10
Hello K-Man:

Clarence Murray does not have any of Hohan Sokken's notes.  He has seen some of Itosu's notes and I believe some of Sokken's notes, but he does not have copies of them.  I asked him about it briefly last Wednesday at his dojo and Thursday when he visited my school (when Jon "Instructor" also visited!). 

Clarence did say that if I really wanted to try to track some of those notes down he would see if he could make that connection for me.  Would you like me to pursue that?

Although Clarence Murray earned his first Dan under James Coffman, he doesn't really trace his lineage primarily through Coffman's Shorin-Ryu Matsumara Orthodox Seito.  from what I could gather in two brief conversations, Clarence Murray has worked more with Willie Adams, Frank Hargrove, Bill Hayes, and more recently with Ali Shabazz, who is aikijujitsu.

Here is more information:
Willie Adams
Frank Hargrove
Bill Hayes 

To really keep it straight I would need to do an interview with Clarence and take notes.  But maybe with your knowledge of Okinawan karate history and lineage you can make better sense of it than I can. For me, I am just trying to implement technique for better real-life self-defense.  It seems to me like the real blossoming of the art is when the hard can become soft (or vice versa).  Whether it is Shorin-ryu Tuite, Hapkido, Aikijujitsu, or Aikido, in the end it seems like there is only what can be done and what cannot be done, and how an exploration of that shapes the individual soul.

But that is just my two cents worth!  I am just glad to be part of IKSDA even though it is clear to me that the people here (including you!) have way more understanding than I have.
Martial Arts done well leads to a more virtuous life because everyone is fighting something.

"If your eye is single, your whole body will be full of light.  But if your eye is evil, even the light that is within you will be darkness.  If the light that is within you is darkness, how great is that darkness?"  (Jesus of Nazareth)
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)