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Need a HKD BB to go with your TKD BB?
#1
A bit of a blast from the past!

Link

I emailed the school for clarification on some details:
  • One does not need prior HKD training in order to test for a HKD BB after this weekend seminar. One only needs to be a TKD BB as the sole requirement, which of course has nothing to do with HKD training.
  • The only information that could possibly be tested for is what is included in the weekend seminar, since HKD training is not a prerequisite. This means that one could be a HKD BB with as little as 16 hours or less of actual HKD training.
  • The actual HKD Dan rank may be greater than first Dan. The actual HKD rank that can be acheived is determined on your TKD rank and how well you did on the 'test'.
  • I don't remember the amount cited in the email, but the testing fee is several hundred dollars and is in addition to the seminar fee.
Tossing this out as an eye-opener to what is out there.
Two thousand years ago wise men sought Christ, wise men still do.

Techniques are situational, principles are universal.

Fast as the wind, quiet as the forest, aggressive as fire, and immovable as a mountain.

He who gets there first with the most...wins!

Minimal force may not be minimum force!

We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our training.


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#2
I'll do you one better.................you don't even have to leave your recliner. For $19.95 plus S&H, you can receive  a certified pre-owned black belt in your choice of styles..........BUT WAIT!!, we'll double the offer and all you pay is separate S&H. Be the envy of all your friends and relatives, when you show up at uncle Lou's 80's birthday gathering. Impress that cute neighbor with a knife hand strike threw the jello or perhaps that snap kick of the hot dog over the fence. Quantities are limited, so rush your order today and if your one of the first 100 callers, we'll send you an additional first aid kit, if you happen to run into someone who actually knows something. The call is free, so act now..........1-800-buy crap ext on tv
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#3
Do you know if this school has done anything similar since this last time?
Two thousand years ago wise men sought Christ, wise men still do.

Techniques are situational, principles are universal.

Fast as the wind, quiet as the forest, aggressive as fire, and immovable as a mountain.

He who gets there first with the most...wins!

Minimal force may not be minimum force!

We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our training.


Reply
#4
They are most likely still running the same, if it ain't broke, don't fix it cause money talks, but now at least they actually offer 2 nights of classes with an actual Hapkido (6th Dan - so the web site states) instructor. I can imagine what folks that have studied for years to get to where they are, thought about a weekend seminar and "poof", your now a certified player at at least 1 Dan or even higher if the check clears.
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#5
Oy vey. Of all the things go bring up.......it has to be this?!

Fine, let me try to put a positive spin, you know, turn that frown upside down that perhaps it can be done legit?

I teach TKD. My adults learn HKD alongside of it. By the time they get to BB in TKD, they are probably around green or blue in HKD. But I don't certify them.

The 1st Dan curriculum fleshes out a lot of HKD that would qualify them as a 1st Dan in HKD by the time they reach 2nd Dan in TKD. They train their HKD for a minimum 5 years in line with TKD to get rank. As a 3rd Dan in HKD, I find this to be reasonable.

So when folks pull this garbage, feel free to slam it. I encourage. But rest easy at night knowing that there are some who do their level best to keep it real and keep it honest.

Oy Vey.
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#6
I have no issue with a TKD school teaching Hapkido or Hapkido-style training along side the TKD curriculum.  In fact I think it's quite a good thing and honestly think that TKD shouldn't be all that different from Hapkido anyway if/when the proper understanding of the movements are taught.  Whether or not actual rank in Hapkido is issued isn't the point because the actual training has been done.  Not the case according to the information I received in my email clarification from them.  Apparently no previous Hapkido training was necessary.  This presents an issue to be sure.  The result is that any students of such 'short-cut' instructors are the ones that will ultimately suffer.  

But then that really goes back to overall universal standards for the martial arts...and there aren't any.   Confused
Two thousand years ago wise men sought Christ, wise men still do.

Techniques are situational, principles are universal.

Fast as the wind, quiet as the forest, aggressive as fire, and immovable as a mountain.

He who gets there first with the most...wins!

Minimal force may not be minimum force!

We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our training.


Reply
#7
Touching on this again, I can see a TKD instructor that mainly teaches TKD, yet has genuine HKD experience (and probably ranking) and passes that on to his/her students.  I can further see them bringing in an outside party from a governing authority association to test the students and offer ranking through that association/organization.  That would be perfectly legitimate.  

I don't think that was the case with this school according to the email inquiry.  

I'll even stretch and suggest a pure TKD school that trains in such a way that HKD skills are incorporated in the training.  Rather than sport-TKD, the school focuses on their TKD in such a way as say Abernathy Sensei approaches karate.  In other words, and this is my opinion, TKD (like) karate could look like a HKD or JJ class if the outside trappings were removed.  I'm not suggesting all the subtle nuances would be there, but a TKD school that incorporates locks and throws and and other movements that are similar to HKD/JJ/Chin Na.  Then an outside governing authority is brought in to evaluate, test and if feasible, to promote/certify.  

I think often labels are taken too far.  If a wrist lock is taught properly, does it matter if it was taught in a HKD, JJ, Chin Na, TKD, TSD or karate school?  And that leads to the topic of cross-ranking.  We can all agree that an instructor in art X going to a buddy who is an instructor in art Y and getting wall candy without any practical training isn't a very good thing.  But what of a HKD instructor that goes to a JJ instructor and demonstrate proficiency to the point that the JJ instructor could rank him/her based on knowledge and demonstrated skill?  Not looking at the 'why would he/she want to' aspect but looking at it from an academic point-of-view.  If a person can demonstrate proficiency in art X that for all intents and purposes is similar enough to art Y is it legitimate to have rank in both?  If an actual test can be passed, is it legitimate if training hasn't actually happened under that specific label?  

Just tossing this out for academic discussion...
Two thousand years ago wise men sought Christ, wise men still do.

Techniques are situational, principles are universal.

Fast as the wind, quiet as the forest, aggressive as fire, and immovable as a mountain.

He who gets there first with the most...wins!

Minimal force may not be minimum force!

We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our training.


Reply
#8
I've brought the bulk of my post on the Elite TKD thread over here, because it fits into this discussion.

I've had some additional time to ponder this assessment and include some other offerings (weekend seminar for HKD BB) and can only come to 2 possible conclusions. 1) Either HKD is not all that it's cracked up to be (doubtful) or 2) TKD folks are finally realizing that what they teach (a generalization for not all fit into this) is very lacking.

Now I've watched several discussions on kicks between TKD and HKD and have yet to see a definitive difference between how they are executed. I only know of one way for a snap kick, now a round house can be delivered either fully chambered or almost straight legged (slight knee bend like Muay Thai) or thrown from the back foot semi chambered from the ground up on a 45 degree angle. I've watched the spinning kicks from both and see no definitive difference etc, etc. Now here come a disclaimer, GM Choi Young Sool only used low kicks (below the waist) and he is the founder of Hapkido. Now GM Ji Han Jae (known as the father of modern day Hapkido) is credited with the inclusion of additional kicking techniques, that could only be derived from his previous studies in karate. GM Choi didn't teach them, so he had to get them from someplace else and those came from karate training which became TKD as time past. So the question presents itself, who's doing real Hapkido and who's doing an off shoot redesigned, or for that matter, does it really make a difference?

If in fact it doesn't make a difference, then are TKD instructors offering Hapkido techniques to enhance SD wrong or is Hapkido as a distinct art in general, not really cracked up to be what people want it to be. After all, joint locks and throws were in fashion long before Hapkido came to be and offered in many different karate styles. Now comes the big question. it's not all that difficult to understand how locks and throws work, so if your really attuned to your training and have some background within the scope of SD (TKD does have SD techniques and most have been based upon Hapkido - General Choi of the ITF made them part of the curriculum), is it really that out of line to be recognized as a ranked Hapkido Dan from a weekend seminar? I know I'm going against my previous post on the subject, but sometimes when one reflects, a glimmer of light shines through and opens the portals for further investigation.
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#9
The Taekwondo I was taught always incorporated a fair amount of locks and bars. As I learned more about typical Taekwondo today versus what I had been taught, I felt a stronger affinity for to Hapkido than what is commonly known as Taekwondo. This was just my own surmising. It was later that I learned more about the common historical origins of both arts.

I won't much of my own story here, but my main instructor cared nothing about lineage. For him, if it worked, great.  I think I had learned about eight of our twelve basic kata (ten of which are Chang Hon ITF patterns) before I even knew they were part of a particular form or style.  So, I knew almost nothing about lineage besides a very general overview of martial arts from what I learned in my own readings from books like The Fighting Arts.

I share that part of my history because I think it illustrates the intuitive nature of locks, bars, etc. regardless of what is consciously taught as "belonging" to a certain style.  I learned techniques first.  Later I was told (by a 5th Dan WTF Taekwondo practitioner) that what I had learned "was not Taekwondo."  By then I was a black belt, had done more research about the history of martial arts in general and my own lineage in particular, had joined IKSDA, and therefore had more understanding of some of the dynamics.  So I just politely nodded.  From his perspective, he made sense.
Martial Arts done well leads to a more virtuous life because everyone is fighting something.

"If your eye is single, your whole body will be full of light.  But if your eye is evil, even the light that is within you will be darkness.  If the light that is within you is darkness, how great is that darkness?"  (Jesus of Nazareth)
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#10
(09-22-2015, 03:40 PM)Conrad Wrote: Later I was told (by a 5th Dan WTF Taekwondo practitioner) that what I had learned "was not Taekwondo." 

He really should have said that it was not WTF Taekwondo as there really is no 'universal' Taekwondo by which to form an all encompassing standard.  Then he would have been correct.  And that's a pretty good example of putting too much emphasis on a label rather than embracing the totality of an art, or what an art can be. 

Is it Taekwondo with locks and throws or is it Hapkido?  Is it Hapkido or is in Jiu Jutsu?  Or is it Karate with properly applied bunkai?  Or is it White Craine Gong Fu? 

Enough to make you roll your eyes. Rolleyes

Would it be legitimate for a practitioner of Taekwondo that utilizes locks and throws and cavity pressing to explain to a practitioner of WTF Taekwondo that they had really only learned a small fraction of the art?
Two thousand years ago wise men sought Christ, wise men still do.

Techniques are situational, principles are universal.

Fast as the wind, quiet as the forest, aggressive as fire, and immovable as a mountain.

He who gets there first with the most...wins!

Minimal force may not be minimum force!

We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our training.


Reply


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