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Ninth or tenth Dan?
#1
Question 
As far as I know, all Okinawan/Japanese arts that use the Dan/Kyu system go up to 10th Dan.  Many Korean arts also go up to 10th Dan while some go only as high as 9th.  What is the reason that some (like Kong Soo Do within the IKSDA) only go to 9th? Should it remain 9th or adopt a 10th Dan level?

Your thoughts either way.
Two thousand years ago wise men sought Christ, wise men still do.

Techniques are situational, principles are universal.

Fast as the wind, quiet as the forest, aggressive as fire, and immovable as a mountain.

He who gets there first with the most...wins!

Minimal force may not be minimum force!

We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our training.


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#2
Just to keep it simple, I believe a 10th dan should be acceptable.
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#3
Do you feel it would make IKSDA KSD more legitimate?  More main stream?  More identifiable?  Would it be of benefit to the membership of the IKSDA, be the art KSD or HKD or TKD?
Two thousand years ago wise men sought Christ, wise men still do.

Techniques are situational, principles are universal.

Fast as the wind, quiet as the forest, aggressive as fire, and immovable as a mountain.

He who gets there first with the most...wins!

Minimal force may not be minimum force!

We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our training.


Reply
#4
I would like to see additional comments of the OP question.  Thank you.
Two thousand years ago wise men sought Christ, wise men still do.

Techniques are situational, principles are universal.

Fast as the wind, quiet as the forest, aggressive as fire, and immovable as a mountain.

He who gets there first with the most...wins!

Minimal force may not be minimum force!

We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our training.


Reply
#5
I would stick with 9th Dan unless perhaps one is the founder of a style that really brings to the forefront a particular nuance of martial science.
Martial Arts done well leads to a more virtuous life because everyone is fighting something.

"If your eye is single, your whole body will be full of light.  But if your eye is evil, even the light that is within you will be darkness.  If the light that is within you is darkness, how great is that darkness?"  (Jesus of Nazareth)
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#6
(05-13-2017, 03:10 AM)Conrad Wrote: I would stick with 9th Dan unless perhaps one is the founder of a style that really brings to the forefront a particular nuance of martial science.

This is the point that I'm pondering.  Technically, I am the founder of Mushin Kwan Kong Soo Do Karate (I am currently pondering a complete change to the name of the art.  Considering Taekido Ryu Karate Jutsu.  It gives total honor/respect to the various arts that have been used in the development of the art.  The term Taekido comes from TKD and HKD which are two arts I hold Master rank in.  Ryu simply means 'style'.  Karate is what I originally trained in (and hold Dan rank in) as well as non-ranked (but instructor level) experience.  And Jutsu means 'method'.  I've never used Korean terminology such as Sabanim etc.  I've always used Okinawan terminology such as Sensei, counting, techniques etc.  

As most here know, I haven't worn a belt in over a decade.  And rank above a certain level becomes more administrative.  So it isn't about trying to get more rank.  GM Davies of the U.K. recognized me as an 8th Dan about 15 years ago give-or-take.  This was in regards to all of my training, rankings and certifications.  It was the highest rank he could bestow on me and equaled his own at the time.  GM Dunn promoted me to 9th Dan upon his retirement several years ago.  To me, again, it's all administrative after a certain point.  And it becomes a necessity for those Dan ranks within the association below so that they have room to grow.  10th seems to be the norm in most every organization I've seen over the years.  Would this be of benefit to the IKSDA as a whole?  

Thoughts to ponder.
Two thousand years ago wise men sought Christ, wise men still do.

Techniques are situational, principles are universal.

Fast as the wind, quiet as the forest, aggressive as fire, and immovable as a mountain.

He who gets there first with the most...wins!

Minimal force may not be minimum force!

We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our training.


Reply
#7
This is a interesting topic first of all. This is my take on it. Traditionaly the tenth Dan or Dahn was reserved for a founder of a style,system,art, etc. Today their are martial arts Instructores and master's out their with several DAN ranking. Because of this their has been organizations that create panels of high ranking Dan rank holders in the hopes that they would be able to issue a Soke or head of family title of Ten Dan. they are required to have a portfolio with videos, certificates, for some organizations you half to do three or more seminar's of your art to the martial arts community, and not always a requirement but have created several contributions to the martial arts like have you thrown a tournament, have you been in a magazine,book,movie, etc. I believe that with time every martial art becomes that masters art through time. If you have the several years as a teacher in your art and have created your own system I don't see a problem with you applying for a soke rank. The only reason I don't say just make your self one is because I don't know your skill set and their are people out their that love the sound of being called a tenth dan but really don't have the experiences or life lessons to be in that position. the worst example I can think of was when I did a seminar with a very good martial arts instructor but he told me he had three 10th Dan ranks as if one was not enough. so obviously thats not normal but thats why councils where created to prevent hopefully that kind of thing.
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#8
To some, the term Soke implies founder of an art or grandmaster.  To others it has a different meaning.  I've known some folks that used the title and others that railed against those that used the title. Personally, I would stay away from the title.  

In truth, several ways a person can go about obtaining a 10th Dan;
  • Wave their hands and print a cert on their printer.
  • Have the founder of the system retire or pass on and the rank is passed on to them.
  • Have a group within or without their organization recognize them at that rank.


Oddly enough, one is not more legitimate than the other.  Many of those we considered 'grandmasters' of the past proclaimed themselves to be the founders of arts, or grandmasters (or great, supreme or ultimate grandmasters) or even ranked shop around organizations to gain rank.  That is simply martial history.  The true test is if the students find value in the teaching and perhaps even carry it on to others.
Two thousand years ago wise men sought Christ, wise men still do.

Techniques are situational, principles are universal.

Fast as the wind, quiet as the forest, aggressive as fire, and immovable as a mountain.

He who gets there first with the most...wins!

Minimal force may not be minimum force!

We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our training.


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