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Carl Cestari: Chin Jab and The O'Neill Cover (and other covers)
#1
Video 












O'Neill Cover

[Image: cover1.gif]


Crazy Monkey Cover

[Image: monkey1.gif]

Defining the Default position

[Image: image046.jpg]
Cow-catcher

[Image: image051.jpg]
Elbow spike
Two thousand years ago wise men sought Christ, wise men still do.

Techniques are situational, principles are universal.

Fast as the wind, quiet as the forest, aggressive as fire, and immovable as a mountain.

He who gets there first with the most...wins!

Minimal force may not be minimum force!

We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our training.


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#2
There's 2 faults (at least from my perspective and training mode), that was shown. First, everything is straight center-line, which to me is just begging for winding up in a grappling situation and if the attacker is bigger, then you may find yourself on the ground and on the bottom, if you haven't been knocked out from hitting the ground. Secondly, if you happen to pull off that intercept, like the first video, that chin jab under stress, could turn into a possible neck snap with too much thrust. Now I realize that some / most folks don't care or even think of such things, but my background dictates that I examine such possible ramifications. Remember, we live in a very litigious society.
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#3
One of the issues that WWII combatives addresses is the possible lack of space.  While it's advantageous to get off the center-line, it isn't always possible.  This is where linear movements come into play such as the chin jab and SPEAR.  Sure, it could injure the neck, but then almost any strike has it's inherent risks when applied to a chaotic fight.  If you're in a situation where a chin jab is a prudent strike, you're in a bad situation to begin with.
Two thousand years ago wise men sought Christ, wise men still do.

Techniques are situational, principles are universal.

Fast as the wind, quiet as the forest, aggressive as fire, and immovable as a mountain.

He who gets there first with the most...wins!

Minimal force may not be minimum force!

We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our training.


Reply
#4
Another consideration is the real-world effectiveness of a given system.  In this case, WWII combatives has many decades of effective results as a track record.  Not to be confused with MMA or other sports systems, WWII combatives (and modern 'urban' combative systems) are extremely simple and straight-forward.  Gross motor skilled based they can be learned quickly and retained in long term memory.  Perfect for those that don't wish (or have the time) to commit to a long term training program.  It should be noted that these types of systems are for getting one's self out of a very bad situation.  It does not focus on controlling techniques.  More towards stun-n-run or damage-n-exit.
Two thousand years ago wise men sought Christ, wise men still do.

Techniques are situational, principles are universal.

Fast as the wind, quiet as the forest, aggressive as fire, and immovable as a mountain.

He who gets there first with the most...wins!

Minimal force may not be minimum force!

We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our training.


Reply
#5
I don't have an issue with the first video but I'm not sure of the biomechanics after that. The way it is demonstrated is slow, at close range, and potentially eye gouging. The way it is shown on the dummy is hard and fast where it is unlikely that the eyes would be involved.

Now from my perspective, and this is not taking into account the relative benefits of being centre line or outside, the only time you would be utilising this action would be from a close grappling position. You might get some upward drive from the knees but an explosive strike is not really an option. Which takes us back to the first video, slow and strong. I would rather have the heel of the hand under the nose than under the chin. Pressure on the chin generates strong resistance. Pressure on the philtrum causes a reflex movement away from the pressure, far more effective for a woman or smaller person to use.

As to the covers. I reckon you will use what happens instinctively. I'm not convinced the O'Neill cover is instinctive and the elbow spike and cow catcher are definitely not instinctive. The crazy monkey cover is closer to reflex action and is similar to what I teach in Krav. The elbow spike and cow catcher are almost a premeditated response and I doubt many people could use them against an unscripted attack. It reminds me of some of the karate 'blocks' where the student is taught ... "For this attack you do this and for that attack you do that." In reality it doesn't happen and you get hit. Action is faster than reaction.
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#6
(09-17-2015, 11:23 PM)K-man Wrote: As to the covers. I reckon you will use what happens instinctively. I'm not convinced the O'Neill cover is instinctive and the elbow spike and cow catcher are definitely not instinctive.

No, they aren't instinctive in the way that say S.P.E.A.R. is instinctive, but they are gross motor skilled movements that can be used as initial protection from assault as well as initiating follow-up responses.  The O'Neill cover is pretty straight forward in that it simply protects the 'command center' i.e. the head whilst getting the arms up at a level that facilitates direct counter/offensive movements.  The forward motion isn't indicated in the photo, it is a way to plow into the attacker forcing them backwards which again facilitates additional openings for your defense/offense.

The elbow strike I would lean towards being instinctive in that it makes a great cover against attacks such as the proverbial sucker punch whilst again getting the arm up and into a position to react.  This is if it is used as a flinch-cover.  Used pre-emptively as a gross motor skilled strike in a forward motion it has the benefit of offering a measure of protection to the head whilst preferably forcing the attacker backward and allowing you follow up movements.  This can be used off of the S.P.E.A.R. and facilitates a myriad of follow up movements such as palm heel strike, chin jab, edge-of-hand strike, forearm strike, grab etc. 

The cow-catcher again is best utilized in a forward movement to force the attacker backwards.  One can then incorporate either the O'Neill cover or elbow spike as a follow up (as two possible examples) or other strikes or kicks. 

They are meant to get you into the attacker whilst providing protection on the way in so that you can then use other offensive means to dispose of the attacker.
Two thousand years ago wise men sought Christ, wise men still do.

Techniques are situational, principles are universal.

Fast as the wind, quiet as the forest, aggressive as fire, and immovable as a mountain.

He who gets there first with the most...wins!

Minimal force may not be minimum force!

We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our training.


Reply
#7






Two thousand years ago wise men sought Christ, wise men still do.

Techniques are situational, principles are universal.

Fast as the wind, quiet as the forest, aggressive as fire, and immovable as a mountain.

He who gets there first with the most...wins!

Minimal force may not be minimum force!

We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our training.


Reply


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